1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,830 [Music] 2 00:00:10,270 --> 00:00:06,330 foreign 3 00:00:13,249 --> 00:00:10,280 [Music] 4 00:00:16,129 --> 00:00:13,259 they were complex narratives of being 5 00:00:20,170 --> 00:00:16,139 taken by alien beings into UFOs on beams 6 00:00:30,830 --> 00:00:23,090 the Air Force is trying to cover up with 7 00:00:35,810 --> 00:00:33,229 from my own point of view I'm going to 8 00:00:37,549 --> 00:00:35,820 be very disappointed if UFOs turn out to 9 00:00:38,870 --> 00:00:37,559 be nothing more than visitors from 10 00:00:42,410 --> 00:00:38,880 another planet because I think there 11 00:00:42,420 --> 00:00:45,550 foreign 12 00:01:08,270 --> 00:01:05,090 [Music] 13 00:01:10,490 --> 00:01:08,280 welcome back to disclosure team thank 14 00:01:13,969 --> 00:01:10,500 you guys for being here this is a 15 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:13,979 pre-recorded video uh so uh no live chat 16 00:01:17,090 --> 00:01:15,360 today guys 17 00:01:17,990 --> 00:01:17,100 um I'm not going to waste any more time 18 00:01:21,770 --> 00:01:18,000 um I'm looking forward to this 19 00:01:24,050 --> 00:01:21,780 conversation uh this uh guest today Matt 20 00:01:25,850 --> 00:01:24,060 Ford is a friend I consider him a friend 21 00:01:28,070 --> 00:01:25,860 I've had the honor of appearing on his 22 00:01:30,649 --> 00:01:28,080 show the good trouble show so without 23 00:01:33,289 --> 00:01:30,659 further Ado let me bring him in 24 00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:33,299 Welcome Matt how are you doing uh Vinnie 25 00:01:35,870 --> 00:01:34,680 I'm doing well thanks so I was worried I 26 00:01:38,510 --> 00:01:35,880 was going to get punked and Mick West 27 00:01:40,130 --> 00:01:38,520 was gonna show up on the screen first so 28 00:01:41,870 --> 00:01:40,140 it's nice to see your face how are 29 00:01:44,030 --> 00:01:41,880 things across the pond 30 00:01:46,390 --> 00:01:44,040 everything is very good this side and I 31 00:01:49,130 --> 00:01:46,400 would never do that to you 32 00:01:51,710 --> 00:01:49,140 I would it would be interesting it would 33 00:01:55,310 --> 00:01:51,720 be a good laugh nonetheless so 34 00:01:57,350 --> 00:01:55,320 anyway yeah super glad to be here and uh 35 00:01:59,149 --> 00:01:57,360 yeah it's not I I have to say this is 36 00:02:01,370 --> 00:01:59,159 the first time that I've been invited on 37 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:01,380 as a guest usually I'm the one doing the 38 00:02:06,590 --> 00:02:03,840 the interviewing so uh I hope I don't 39 00:02:08,270 --> 00:02:06,600 mess this up uh it's gonna be fun and I 40 00:02:10,190 --> 00:02:08,280 mentioned there in the brief intro that 41 00:02:12,530 --> 00:02:10,200 uh the honor of appearing on the good 42 00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:12,540 trouble show with yourself and Dan uh 43 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:14,640 last year that was great I really 44 00:02:17,630 --> 00:02:16,020 enjoyed that and you've really made 45 00:02:19,670 --> 00:02:17,640 quite an impact in the time that you've 46 00:02:21,830 --> 00:02:19,680 been you know visible in the UFO 47 00:02:23,390 --> 00:02:21,840 Community especially on UFO Twitter and 48 00:02:25,130 --> 00:02:23,400 you know you've really done some great 49 00:02:27,290 --> 00:02:25,140 stuff so you know I commend you on that 50 00:02:28,309 --> 00:02:27,300 and I suppose that leads into my first 51 00:02:30,589 --> 00:02:28,319 question 52 00:02:32,510 --> 00:02:30,599 um in fact before I go into that let's 53 00:02:33,770 --> 00:02:32,520 take a little let's take a step back I'd 54 00:02:35,990 --> 00:02:33,780 love to know just a little bit of your 55 00:02:39,710 --> 00:02:36,000 brief background if you don't mind 56 00:02:43,550 --> 00:02:39,720 sure yeah so uh let me start off I am 57 00:02:46,670 --> 00:02:43,560 completely new to the whole uh UAP UFO 58 00:02:50,449 --> 00:02:46,680 topic I'm not a UAP UFO historian I 59 00:02:52,910 --> 00:02:50,459 don't claim to be uh much of much of 60 00:02:56,030 --> 00:02:52,920 what I learned I pick up by listening to 61 00:02:58,430 --> 00:02:56,040 podcasts uh you know from people such as 62 00:03:01,250 --> 00:02:58,440 yourself so so it's really been a really 63 00:03:01,850 --> 00:03:01,260 been a great uh a great 64 00:03:03,949 --> 00:03:01,860 um 65 00:03:06,170 --> 00:03:03,959 a great way to kind of 66 00:03:08,869 --> 00:03:06,180 get myself up to speed on this topic but 67 00:03:10,790 --> 00:03:08,879 I have a long way to go uh so yeah so 68 00:03:13,850 --> 00:03:10,800 I've I've worked in the in the 69 00:03:17,089 --> 00:03:13,860 television business for over 20 years uh 70 00:03:20,570 --> 00:03:17,099 behind the camera and uh I guess it's 71 00:03:22,369 --> 00:03:20,580 probably in about 20 2016 72 00:03:25,070 --> 00:03:22,379 I decided to get into more of the 73 00:03:26,630 --> 00:03:25,080 politics end of things and formed a 74 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:26,640 political action committee stand for 75 00:03:31,130 --> 00:03:28,860 better where we were producing content 76 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:31,140 mainly political ads supporting the 77 00:03:35,930 --> 00:03:34,260 Democratic party and uh it was just kind 78 00:03:38,449 --> 00:03:35,940 of something I fell into this this 79 00:03:39,949 --> 00:03:38,459 happened during the during the the covet 80 00:03:42,710 --> 00:03:39,959 epidemic when things here in Hollywood 81 00:03:45,530 --> 00:03:42,720 were shut down and was a way to sort of 82 00:03:48,530 --> 00:03:45,540 uh do what I felt was supported my my 83 00:03:50,270 --> 00:03:48,540 political views and uh and and it was 84 00:03:53,030 --> 00:03:50,280 great we we quickly became the third 85 00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:53,040 largest uh producer of political content 86 00:03:59,089 --> 00:03:56,400 uh supporting Democratic causes on 87 00:04:02,149 --> 00:03:59,099 Twitter and uh and other platforms 88 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:02,159 secondarily uh so so that really grew 89 00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:04,700 and one of the things that that that 90 00:04:10,910 --> 00:04:07,799 sort of opened the doors for were 91 00:04:14,030 --> 00:04:10,920 developing relationships with uh folks 92 00:04:15,770 --> 00:04:14,040 on Capitol Hill and uh and that was kind 93 00:04:17,930 --> 00:04:15,780 of kind of the the beginning of that it 94 00:04:21,050 --> 00:04:17,940 was really kind of the before my 95 00:04:25,670 --> 00:04:21,060 interest in the in the UAP subject 96 00:04:28,129 --> 00:04:25,680 um where the UAP thing really began so 97 00:04:30,409 --> 00:04:28,139 back in back in the early 90s when I was 98 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:30,419 in college I had this sort of bizarre 99 00:04:35,950 --> 00:04:33,300 interest in U.S and Russian nuclear 100 00:04:39,830 --> 00:04:35,960 policy and began studying it quite a bit 101 00:04:43,129 --> 00:04:39,840 uh and it's always as was something of 102 00:04:44,810 --> 00:04:43,139 Interest the UAP side of things or back 103 00:04:45,710 --> 00:04:44,820 then UFOs of course was something of 104 00:04:47,930 --> 00:04:45,720 Interest 105 00:04:49,550 --> 00:04:47,940 that it started when I was about nine 106 00:04:52,790 --> 00:04:49,560 years old when close on the Close 107 00:04:55,850 --> 00:04:52,800 Encounters of the Third Third Kind was 108 00:04:58,490 --> 00:04:55,860 released and my interest in the UFO 109 00:05:02,030 --> 00:04:58,500 topic just kind of came and go it came 110 00:05:05,330 --> 00:05:02,040 and went every you know five six years 111 00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:05,340 and I remember what what got me sort of 112 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:07,919 back uh interested in it again was I 113 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:10,080 came across Leslie Keane's book I'm 114 00:05:13,189 --> 00:05:11,580 blanking on the title you probably 115 00:05:14,870 --> 00:05:13,199 helped me uh with that but it was she 116 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:14,880 had interviewed all of these uh these 117 00:05:20,689 --> 00:05:17,780 folks in the military that had uh um 118 00:05:22,810 --> 00:05:20,699 encounters with UAP I'm blanking on the 119 00:05:25,189 --> 00:05:22,820 name do you remember 120 00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:25,199 so I've got it next to me if it's UFOs 121 00:05:30,650 --> 00:05:27,360 pilots and Generals yeah it was 122 00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:30,660 something like that right so uh so I 123 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:33,660 read that book and and I actually right 124 00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:35,580 yes sir I read that book and I was like 125 00:05:38,810 --> 00:05:36,960 wow they're you know there truly is 126 00:05:40,969 --> 00:05:38,820 something to this and I think it was 127 00:05:43,070 --> 00:05:40,979 right around after that that I I picked 128 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:43,080 up the John Mack book and that really 129 00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:45,660 kind of blew my mind 130 00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:48,900 um so excuse me um 131 00:05:57,469 --> 00:05:53,539 so fast forward probably early early 132 00:05:59,870 --> 00:05:57,479 2000s and as part of my interest in in 133 00:06:03,350 --> 00:05:59,880 nuclear policies and then also UFO I 134 00:06:06,529 --> 00:06:03,360 came across Robert Hastings book UFO and 135 00:06:07,790 --> 00:06:06,539 nukes and that was something again I was 136 00:06:10,010 --> 00:06:07,800 like wow this is you know really 137 00:06:13,670 --> 00:06:10,020 interesting stuff again sort of shelled 138 00:06:17,570 --> 00:06:13,680 the UAP topic uh began producing uh 139 00:06:20,450 --> 00:06:17,580 political political ads and uh I guess 140 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:20,460 it would have been probably around this 141 00:06:23,990 --> 00:06:22,380 time last year that I decided you know 142 00:06:24,950 --> 00:06:24,000 what I really want to start looking into 143 00:06:28,129 --> 00:06:24,960 this again 144 00:06:30,350 --> 00:06:28,139 and backing up a bit actually yeah 145 00:06:32,930 --> 00:06:30,360 rewinding a bit it was when I first 146 00:06:35,689 --> 00:06:32,940 heard about this uh UAP report coming 147 00:06:38,029 --> 00:06:35,699 out of the odni back in what was that 148 00:06:40,370 --> 00:06:38,039 summer of 2021 that was really what 149 00:06:42,350 --> 00:06:40,380 started it all uh or sort of reignited 150 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:42,360 the fire of me being interested in this 151 00:06:44,749 --> 00:06:44,100 stuff and 152 00:06:47,689 --> 00:06:44,759 um 153 00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:47,699 and so uh all of that developed and that 154 00:06:53,629 --> 00:06:51,840 report came out and that right around 155 00:06:55,909 --> 00:06:53,639 that time when I decided to really start 156 00:06:57,469 --> 00:06:55,919 doing something about it I decided I'm 157 00:07:01,309 --> 00:06:57,479 going to reach out to Robert Hastings 158 00:07:04,309 --> 00:07:01,319 and uh see if he would be interested in 159 00:07:06,830 --> 00:07:04,319 in chatting about the the nuclear aspect 160 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:06,840 of this and that really kind of started 161 00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:09,620 the ball rolling uh did some extensive 162 00:07:17,749 --> 00:07:12,240 extensive telephone interviews with him 163 00:07:21,710 --> 00:07:17,759 that openly I'll release and uh and not 164 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:21,720 too long after uh interviewed uh uh Bob 165 00:07:29,029 --> 00:07:24,840 Robert Captain Robert Sal's Bob Salas 166 00:07:29,749 --> 00:07:29,039 and David spindelli and that really sort 167 00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:29,759 of 168 00:07:37,370 --> 00:07:34,800 then then at that point I decided you 169 00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:37,380 know what I'm going to reach out to my 170 00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:39,840 contacts in on Capitol Hill and see if 171 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:42,180 they would be willing to talk and that 172 00:07:46,309 --> 00:07:44,460 was where it sort of took off 173 00:07:48,950 --> 00:07:46,319 yeah that's great thank you so much and 174 00:07:51,469 --> 00:07:48,960 you mentioned there the uh the June 2021 175 00:07:53,029 --> 00:07:51,479 the preliminary assessment on UAP did 176 00:07:55,249 --> 00:07:53,039 you have conversations about that 177 00:07:57,650 --> 00:07:55,259 specific assessment with any of your 178 00:07:59,870 --> 00:07:57,660 contacts on on Capitol Hill and if and 179 00:08:01,550 --> 00:07:59,880 if you did or what was the kind of tone 180 00:08:03,529 --> 00:08:01,560 of it or what were you getting from them 181 00:08:05,870 --> 00:08:03,539 what was the genuine interest from them 182 00:08:09,170 --> 00:08:05,880 or did were they brushing it off like 183 00:08:11,930 --> 00:08:09,180 it was a bit crazy no surprisingly 184 00:08:14,749 --> 00:08:11,940 enough one of the things so I I think it 185 00:08:15,950 --> 00:08:14,759 I had written a an article for the 186 00:08:17,689 --> 00:08:15,960 debrief 187 00:08:20,210 --> 00:08:17,699 um it might have been my timeline gets a 188 00:08:22,490 --> 00:08:20,220 little bit screwy regarding the U.S Air 189 00:08:26,330 --> 00:08:22,500 Force being being silent on the whole 190 00:08:29,930 --> 00:08:26,340 issue and my my hypothesis for that was 191 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:29,940 that it's mainly driven to driven by the 192 00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:32,700 the history of UFOs interfering with our 193 00:08:37,010 --> 00:08:34,740 land-based strategic nuclear deterrent 194 00:08:38,510 --> 00:08:37,020 what but more of a reason for Air Force 195 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:38,520 not to want to talk about it than that 196 00:08:43,310 --> 00:08:40,800 and um 197 00:08:45,530 --> 00:08:43,320 and and it was uh it's either right 198 00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:45,540 right before that or right after that 199 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:47,940 that I reached oh sorry I know I tend to 200 00:08:52,610 --> 00:08:50,880 jump around a bit it's my age my ADD 201 00:08:55,490 --> 00:08:52,620 kicking in 202 00:08:57,949 --> 00:08:55,500 so I'd written a I'd written an op-ed uh 203 00:09:00,949 --> 00:08:57,959 for that uh on that subject for the for 204 00:09:03,290 --> 00:09:00,959 the debrief and at at that time I was 205 00:09:06,230 --> 00:09:03,300 for Twitter I was going for the 206 00:09:08,329 --> 00:09:06,240 illustrious blue check mark and at that 207 00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:08,339 point before uh Elon bought everything 208 00:09:12,170 --> 00:09:10,500 one of the workarounds to getting your 209 00:09:14,630 --> 00:09:12,180 account verified even though we were a 210 00:09:20,150 --> 00:09:14,640 really large account was riding op-eds 211 00:09:23,329 --> 00:09:20,160 and uh so I asked uh asked around in one 212 00:09:26,750 --> 00:09:23,339 of my private groups if anyone knew a 213 00:09:28,130 --> 00:09:26,760 certain person in Congress and this uh 214 00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:28,140 someone in my private group said yeah 215 00:09:33,829 --> 00:09:30,420 actually I'll introduce you to this uh 216 00:09:36,110 --> 00:09:33,839 person's chief of staff and uh and I 217 00:09:38,449 --> 00:09:36,120 emailed this person and said hey I'm 218 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:38,459 interested in writing an iPad uh with 219 00:09:42,350 --> 00:09:40,380 this particular lawmaker be interested 220 00:09:46,850 --> 00:09:42,360 in going on the record 221 00:09:49,790 --> 00:09:46,860 and this uh the chief of staff set up a 222 00:09:51,889 --> 00:09:49,800 zoom call and when the zoom call 223 00:09:54,290 --> 00:09:51,899 happened I thought it was simply going 224 00:09:55,730 --> 00:09:54,300 to be uh you know okay what are you 225 00:09:57,889 --> 00:09:55,740 wanting to write about you know what 226 00:10:00,530 --> 00:09:57,899 what are you wanting this person to talk 227 00:10:04,310 --> 00:10:00,540 about blah blah blah so I hop on the 228 00:10:07,250 --> 00:10:04,320 call it was uh the lawmakers uh comms 229 00:10:08,570 --> 00:10:07,260 person uh National National Security 230 00:10:10,490 --> 00:10:08,580 advisor and then there was a third 231 00:10:13,490 --> 00:10:10,500 person who I'm not quite sure who it was 232 00:10:15,829 --> 00:10:13,500 so I hop on the call and 233 00:10:19,250 --> 00:10:15,839 you know tell them who I am and what we 234 00:10:20,690 --> 00:10:19,260 do and I don't remember who it was on 235 00:10:23,329 --> 00:10:20,700 the call said okay what do you want to 236 00:10:24,769 --> 00:10:23,339 know and again I was I was primed for 237 00:10:27,290 --> 00:10:24,779 just saying oh we just want to write a 238 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:27,300 story about this and was frankly caught 239 00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:32,100 very kind of unprepared and uh and said 240 00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:36,720 okay you know uh is this is what was in 241 00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:40,920 the report is this really occurring and 242 00:10:45,470 --> 00:10:43,260 and and I'll I'll never forget it but 243 00:10:47,090 --> 00:10:45,480 there were several things that we spoke 244 00:10:48,889 --> 00:10:47,100 about it's about a 10-minute long called 245 00:10:52,009 --> 00:10:48,899 it was a voice only there were no 246 00:10:55,490 --> 00:10:52,019 pictures uh but the the main element 247 00:10:57,590 --> 00:10:55,500 that that stuck out was that yes these 248 00:10:59,870 --> 00:10:57,600 things were real it's considered a 249 00:11:01,850 --> 00:10:59,880 national security threat uh that they 250 00:11:04,970 --> 00:11:01,860 were being observed on our space-based 251 00:11:07,370 --> 00:11:04,980 platforms and the thing that really 252 00:11:10,069 --> 00:11:07,380 kind of threw me the most which was from 253 00:11:11,870 --> 00:11:10,079 the National Security advisor this guy 254 00:11:13,910 --> 00:11:11,880 said look we may never understand where 255 00:11:17,210 --> 00:11:13,920 all of this stuff is coming from and he 256 00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:17,220 he wasn't the discussion wasn't about a 257 00:11:24,710 --> 00:11:20,880 terrestrial Source uh so 258 00:11:27,050 --> 00:11:24,720 after that I I would say probably about 259 00:11:28,790 --> 00:11:27,060 about a one to two day period I was kind 260 00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:28,800 of in shock I think it's one thing when 261 00:11:33,949 --> 00:11:31,680 when you hear people on UFO Twitter 262 00:11:37,130 --> 00:11:33,959 talking talking about it or on you know 263 00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:37,140 YouTube podcasts or or and you know it's 264 00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:38,160 real 265 00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:40,680 um yeah but then to have somebody on 266 00:11:46,850 --> 00:11:44,160 Capitol Hill uh on this person's 267 00:11:48,290 --> 00:11:46,860 you know uh staff tell you that it is 268 00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:48,300 indeed real and that they're very much 269 00:11:54,230 --> 00:11:52,320 aware of it uh at that was a good bit of 270 00:11:56,990 --> 00:11:54,240 shock to be honest it took me a bit to 271 00:11:59,210 --> 00:11:57,000 die to digest it I can imagine that and 272 00:12:01,250 --> 00:11:59,220 I also imagine that they're saying this 273 00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:01,260 to you after having briefings as well 274 00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:03,420 closed door briefings so potentially 275 00:12:09,290 --> 00:12:06,360 seeing stuff that we the public haven't 276 00:12:12,050 --> 00:12:09,300 seen and may never see right 277 00:12:13,250 --> 00:12:12,060 yeah that I mean yeah the the uh you 278 00:12:15,530 --> 00:12:13,260 know the one part of the conversation 279 00:12:17,810 --> 00:12:15,540 when when the uh the satellite stuff 280 00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:17,820 came up they were 281 00:12:23,090 --> 00:12:20,040 um or this guy was extremely careful 282 00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:23,100 about how he worded it uh obviously our 283 00:12:27,530 --> 00:12:25,680 space-based platforms ISR stuff and 284 00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:27,540 intelligence surveillance reconnaissance 285 00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:28,560 those are 286 00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:32,880 probably the most best kept tightly held 287 00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:35,160 secrets so I knew it was something not 288 00:12:42,650 --> 00:12:39,660 to particularly push on uh I am aware of 289 00:12:45,530 --> 00:12:42,660 the open source stuff uh as far as 290 00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:45,540 satellite platforms namely stuff that's 291 00:12:51,410 --> 00:12:48,959 that's geared towards uh missile uh you 292 00:12:53,569 --> 00:12:51,420 know missile launch detection uh you 293 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:53,579 know that kind of thing ask beers and 294 00:12:59,090 --> 00:12:57,120 things like that but it was something I 295 00:13:02,569 --> 00:12:59,100 knew kind of not to really push too much 296 00:13:05,449 --> 00:13:02,579 on uh but it was it was it was a 297 00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:05,459 surprise and it wasn't a surprise and 298 00:13:08,389 --> 00:13:06,779 there was also and I don't remember the 299 00:13:10,970 --> 00:13:08,399 exact I'd have to go back and look at my 300 00:13:15,050 --> 00:13:10,980 notes but there was also reference to 301 00:13:17,329 --> 00:13:15,060 pushback from the dod to try and 302 00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,339 put this stuff not back in the can I 303 00:13:22,190 --> 00:13:19,440 don't remember exactly how how it was uh 304 00:13:25,069 --> 00:13:22,200 uh put but it was it was basically an 305 00:13:27,889 --> 00:13:25,079 inference to do what they could to push 306 00:13:30,170 --> 00:13:27,899 back on the Congressional efforts to get 307 00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,180 this out in the open and wrestling away 308 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,639 from the dod I mean there's no surprise 309 00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:34,320 there to hear about pushback I think 310 00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:36,360 that's just a given with this subject 311 00:13:40,910 --> 00:13:37,980 you know looking back over the decades 312 00:13:42,350 --> 00:13:40,920 for the many decades so you know coming 313 00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,360 from this political background of 314 00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:43,920 yourself how does it feel to see 315 00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:46,560 something become such a big bipartisan 316 00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:48,360 effort you know because there's not that 317 00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:50,339 much from my understanding in the US 318 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,560 that kind of brings the two sides 319 00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:54,720 together is that something that you were 320 00:13:58,490 --> 00:13:56,820 surprised about is it is it good like 321 00:14:01,629 --> 00:13:58,500 what are your thoughts on that 322 00:14:04,190 --> 00:14:01,639 well I think I mean obviously you the 323 00:14:05,389 --> 00:14:04,200 primarily what I do comment about on on 324 00:14:08,829 --> 00:14:05,399 the good trouble show is mostly 325 00:14:13,069 --> 00:14:08,839 political commentary and and and 326 00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:13,079 politics in in America is extremely uh 327 00:14:17,810 --> 00:14:16,560 tribalistic and uh it's it's kind of 328 00:14:21,949 --> 00:14:17,820 been heading that way for a very long 329 00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:21,959 time uh but there it's it it in many 330 00:14:27,889 --> 00:14:24,480 ways it's surprising but in in some in 331 00:14:31,069 --> 00:14:27,899 some it's not I think that 332 00:14:32,629 --> 00:14:31,079 I I think that when 333 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:32,639 you know so so 334 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,160 people that sit on these you know Senate 335 00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:37,680 armed salary as you know the Senate uh 336 00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:39,180 you know Senate intelligence committees 337 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:40,980 armed services committees all that all 338 00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:43,560 those sort of uh things that deal with 339 00:14:49,370 --> 00:14:46,620 the nation's uh National Defense 340 00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:49,380 these folks are cleared to be able to 341 00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:53,279 see this intelligence product and 342 00:14:58,750 --> 00:14:56,100 obviously some of this uh as as many 343 00:15:03,290 --> 00:14:58,760 people talked about could very well be 344 00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:03,300 uh surveillance by China or Russia uh 345 00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:06,120 but as I as people like Lou Elizondo and 346 00:15:10,490 --> 00:15:08,459 others have spoken about these same 347 00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:10,500 vehicles have been observed going back 348 00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:12,959 all the way to World War II when there 349 00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:15,480 was no such thing as jet propulsion uh 350 00:15:21,889 --> 00:15:18,480 so when these folks I think see this 351 00:15:25,610 --> 00:15:21,899 stuff it's it's very clear that it's uh 352 00:15:27,889 --> 00:15:25,620 not made by human hands uh Republican 353 00:15:31,790 --> 00:15:27,899 representative Tim burchett has spoken 354 00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:31,800 about that and I so I think I think in 355 00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:33,660 general that 356 00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:35,940 I would say congress 357 00:15:42,769 --> 00:15:38,880 is probably a bit perturbed by being 358 00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,779 kept in the dark uh and I think probably 359 00:15:47,810 --> 00:15:44,880 more perturbed too that that the 360 00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:47,820 Pentagon seems to or an element of the 361 00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:49,500 Pentagon has seemed to really want to 362 00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:51,300 bury their head about this when it's 363 00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,880 clearly a national security risk I think 364 00:15:58,970 --> 00:15:55,800 it was Senator Kirsten gillibrand had 365 00:16:01,370 --> 00:15:58,980 stated if if you have some Submarine 366 00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:01,380 that's you know that's gone way up into 367 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,040 the Potomac in conducting surveillance 368 00:16:08,810 --> 00:16:06,600 it's you don't want to just go oh yeah 369 00:16:11,329 --> 00:16:08,820 whatever and go about your business you 370 00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:11,339 want to find out why it's there uh what 371 00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:13,740 it's doing what it wants what it's what 372 00:16:19,009 --> 00:16:15,779 intelligence it's trying to collect what 373 00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:19,019 its capabilities are what its intent is 374 00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,380 and uh and you know at the end of the 375 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:24,839 day while I may disagree with my 376 00:16:28,730 --> 00:16:27,360 Republican uh friends I know at the end 377 00:16:31,009 --> 00:16:28,740 of the day they love this country as 378 00:16:34,069 --> 00:16:31,019 much as I do you know we may just differ 379 00:16:37,370 --> 00:16:34,079 on on policy so really in many ways it's 380 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,380 no surprise that this is a big deal and 381 00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:39,120 uh and that they're taking it seriously 382 00:16:45,310 --> 00:16:41,880 and and my hope is that it will continue 383 00:16:48,769 --> 00:16:45,320 to be a bipartisan issue as it should be 384 00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:48,779 excuse me and which is why the way why 385 00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:52,380 by the way uh when I do shows or message 386 00:16:57,710 --> 00:16:54,959 on the UAP topic I'm very apolitical 387 00:17:00,889 --> 00:16:57,720 about it because it it should be a 388 00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:00,899 political it should remain that way 389 00:17:05,689 --> 00:17:03,000 completely agree and I think you do it 390 00:17:07,069 --> 00:17:05,699 absolutely fantastically so thank you 391 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:07,079 yeah definitely 392 00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:09,480 um and we're talking about pushback and 393 00:17:14,449 --> 00:17:12,419 different sides and that there's 394 00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:14,459 regularly there's chatter on UFO Twitter 395 00:17:19,850 --> 00:17:17,760 by by certain naysayers let's say um and 396 00:17:21,350 --> 00:17:19,860 I don't normally I don't usually like to 397 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:21,360 highlight any kind of drama or 398 00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:23,760 negativity but sure there's a there are 399 00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,500 other certain naysayers that say that 400 00:17:30,169 --> 00:17:27,360 Congress has just been duped by a bunch 401 00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:30,179 of UFO activists on UFO Twitter what can 402 00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,919 you say to that you know oh yeah yeah 403 00:17:36,350 --> 00:17:33,840 you're talking you're talking about a 404 00:17:37,970 --> 00:17:36,360 Green Street in Midwest who by the way 405 00:17:40,610 --> 00:17:37,980 for the longest time I referred to him 406 00:17:44,090 --> 00:17:40,620 as Dick West it was that if it was 407 00:17:49,370 --> 00:17:44,100 totally by accident it's uh my add in 408 00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:49,380 full effect uh yeah no I uh I I I 409 00:17:53,330 --> 00:17:51,240 these for you know the thing you have to 410 00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:53,340 understand these these Congressional 411 00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:56,760 staffers they all especially if if 412 00:18:01,789 --> 00:18:00,000 someone is a uh a senator's National 413 00:18:04,070 --> 00:18:01,799 Security advisor they're they are going 414 00:18:06,830 --> 00:18:04,080 to see the same product they're going to 415 00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:06,840 have tssci clearance not all of them are 416 00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:09,539 going to have that but they they have to 417 00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:11,340 have these clearances in order to 418 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:13,860 discuss security matters intelligence 419 00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:15,960 matters with with their lawmakers in 420 00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:19,919 order to uh in order to advise them so I 421 00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,799 I believe it was uh in Midwest that it 422 00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:25,200 said something or maybe is the other you 423 00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:27,900 know Green Street guy about 424 00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:30,960 that it just kind of dumb staffers that 425 00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:33,360 that know nothing and that that is the 426 00:18:37,970 --> 00:18:35,880 farthest thing from the truth the these 427 00:18:43,250 --> 00:18:37,980 young staffers they they're overworked 428 00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:43,260 they're underpaid and uh and and 429 00:18:48,409 --> 00:18:46,320 they are not going to let's say you're 430 00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:48,419 Lou Elizondo and you're initially going 431 00:18:54,289 --> 00:18:51,840 to go talk to a staffer who's then going 432 00:18:55,370 --> 00:18:54,299 to brief the senator and then make that 433 00:18:57,130 --> 00:18:55,380 connection 434 00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:57,140 they're not 435 00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:00,799 these people aren't just going to 436 00:19:08,409 --> 00:19:05,160 waste their boss's time a senator or 437 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:08,419 Congressman with an issue that's that's 438 00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:11,820 frivolous and uh 439 00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:14,520 and so I I think I think that's really 440 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:17,240 kind of a straw man's argument that that 441 00:19:22,250 --> 00:19:20,460 these these uh these staffers that work 442 00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,260 so hard for these these folks on Capitol 443 00:19:28,010 --> 00:19:25,200 Hill that that they're just it's it's 444 00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:28,020 all fluff it it makes absolutely no 445 00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:31,440 sense and and the other thing too 446 00:19:36,409 --> 00:19:34,799 all of this stuff you're not going to 447 00:19:39,049 --> 00:19:36,419 have any particular lawmaker that's 448 00:19:40,610 --> 00:19:39,059 that's going to a do something on a 449 00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,620 bipartisan level that they're going to 450 00:19:45,650 --> 00:19:43,200 stick their ass on the line and walk 451 00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:45,660 across the aisle and say Hey you know 452 00:19:51,049 --> 00:19:49,500 there's this UAP subject uh and uh maybe 453 00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:51,059 just be a bunch of baloney and and 454 00:19:55,730 --> 00:19:53,760 nothing happens but but 455 00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:55,740 it's it's clear it's it's a serious 456 00:20:01,370 --> 00:19:58,260 subject it's serious enough for them to 457 00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:01,380 to produce legislation on it that became 458 00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:05,400 law to do so in a bipartisan sense 459 00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:06,840 um you know if this were something that 460 00:20:12,110 --> 00:20:09,419 were just something you know that the 461 00:20:14,409 --> 00:20:12,120 people on the left were into and the 462 00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,419 Republican side wanted to make hay of 463 00:20:21,049 --> 00:20:17,120 that would most likely happen in today's 464 00:20:24,409 --> 00:20:21,059 tribalistic environment but I think that 465 00:20:27,350 --> 00:20:24,419 in and of itself tells you uh to a great 466 00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:27,360 deal the seriousness and the awareness 467 00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,600 on both sides of the aisle the the 468 00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:31,919 people in Congress that are able to view 469 00:20:36,049 --> 00:20:34,020 the product and and receive these 470 00:20:37,789 --> 00:20:36,059 briefings that this is a really big deal 471 00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:37,799 and it is a national security problem 472 00:20:43,130 --> 00:20:40,799 and it's it's uh this is something that 473 00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:43,140 it's it's high time that that 474 00:20:49,070 --> 00:20:45,720 they need to come clean about uh or 475 00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:49,080 spill the beans on on why this has been 476 00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:52,260 kept under wraps for you know for such a 477 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:53,520 long time 478 00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:55,260 yeah absolutely and I've had a very 479 00:20:57,529 --> 00:20:56,700 similar conversation with a few friends 480 00:21:00,049 --> 00:20:57,539 about 481 00:21:02,570 --> 00:21:00,059 the importance of staffers when it comes 482 00:21:05,690 --> 00:21:02,580 to to this subject you know it's they're 483 00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:05,700 not just there as minions let's say uh 484 00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:07,740 they're a vital part of this and they 485 00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:11,940 you know can get this issue up to the to 486 00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:13,980 the people that it needs to go to so you 487 00:21:18,409 --> 00:21:15,860 know I've been been taught and told 488 00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:18,419 about U.S politics a lot in the last 489 00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:20,160 couple of years and that these staffers 490 00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:22,919 are genuinely vital and very important 491 00:21:27,110 --> 00:21:24,660 pieces of the puzzle so I appreciate 492 00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:27,120 what you said there yeah sure yeah and 493 00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:28,799 you know and going back to that to that 494 00:21:33,049 --> 00:21:31,320 uh that uh conference call that I had 495 00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:33,059 these folks knew what they were talking 496 00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:36,600 about this this wasn't some some uh guy 497 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:40,500 fresh out of college uh and uh you know 498 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,260 they were very well versed on the 499 00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:46,080 subject they were very aware of the the 500 00:21:52,669 --> 00:21:49,980 the politics at play with the dod uh and 501 00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:52,679 of course very aware of the reality that 502 00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:55,679 this what we're talking about uh is not 503 00:22:02,450 --> 00:21:59,600 Russia or China or or or seagulls 504 00:22:04,190 --> 00:22:02,460 that it's a very it's a very real thing 505 00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:04,200 and 506 00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:05,000 um 507 00:22:11,390 --> 00:22:07,980 there was nothing that I asked that they 508 00:22:14,270 --> 00:22:11,400 weren't able to answer in a very uh 509 00:22:16,909 --> 00:22:14,280 informed uh quick way they were very 510 00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,919 briefed on on what was going on with the 511 00:22:20,330 --> 00:22:17,760 subject 512 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:20,340 yeah absolutely and another thing I 513 00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,840 suppose that's related to this is the 514 00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,520 National Defense authorization act over 515 00:22:28,010 --> 00:22:25,440 the last few years we've seen UAP 516 00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,020 related language you know in the in the 517 00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,000 ACT that's been signed into law every 518 00:22:34,190 --> 00:22:32,400 year and it almost seems like each year 519 00:22:36,590 --> 00:22:34,200 that goes by it's more advanced 520 00:22:39,950 --> 00:22:36,600 developed language that really is trying 521 00:22:41,450 --> 00:22:39,960 to pinpoint where we can get this 522 00:22:44,110 --> 00:22:41,460 information to be able to bring it out 523 00:22:46,789 --> 00:22:44,120 or or at least let Congress understand 524 00:22:48,950 --> 00:22:46,799 some historical significance of what's 525 00:22:50,090 --> 00:22:48,960 been happening behind the scenes so you 526 00:22:52,250 --> 00:22:50,100 know I'd love to know your thoughts on 527 00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:52,260 the ndaa and especially this one that 528 00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:54,659 just passed in December of 2022 because 529 00:22:57,590 --> 00:22:55,679 we're now having this word 530 00:22:58,970 --> 00:22:57,600 whistleblowers thrown in there you know 531 00:23:01,250 --> 00:22:58,980 whether that's in the act or whether 532 00:23:03,110 --> 00:23:01,260 that's just kind of this buzzword that's 533 00:23:05,870 --> 00:23:03,120 flying around UFO Twitter but I'd love 534 00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:05,880 to hear your views on the ndaa but also 535 00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:08,280 this language that we're now seeing 536 00:23:14,270 --> 00:23:11,400 uh the I mean I I think this is really 537 00:23:17,149 --> 00:23:14,280 significant uh when I interviewed Robert 538 00:23:19,730 --> 00:23:17,159 Salas that was the first time I had ever 539 00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:19,740 heard of these non-disclosure agreements 540 00:23:22,730 --> 00:23:21,120 excuse me 541 00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:22,740 and not everybody from what I understand 542 00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:24,720 has been required to sign them but but 543 00:23:29,450 --> 00:23:27,600 he was for instance it was a uh I forgot 544 00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,460 exactly the details but he had heard 545 00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:31,919 someone else speak about his incident at 546 00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:33,960 monstrum and therefore he assumed that 547 00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:35,880 it was okay for him to speak about it 548 00:23:42,470 --> 00:23:40,440 but the you know the uh excuse me you 549 00:23:43,690 --> 00:23:42,480 know the thing to understand with with 550 00:23:46,970 --> 00:23:43,700 um 551 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:46,980 these folks and I have family that that 552 00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:50,100 uh has served and continue to serve in 553 00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:52,220 the military 554 00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:55,340 classification when you have a clearance 555 00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:59,039 that that in many ways is is gold to 556 00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:02,400 these people uh so if there's a huge 557 00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:05,100 amount of money that's that's spent on 558 00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:07,980 giving someone or someone obtaining a a 559 00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:10,500 top secret or tssci clearance and 560 00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:12,960 maintaining of it it's a huge it costs a 561 00:24:18,830 --> 00:24:15,720 lot of money to do that and that is also 562 00:24:21,950 --> 00:24:18,840 that person's golden ticket for when 563 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:21,960 they decide to exit the military retire 564 00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:23,340 from the military and go into the 565 00:24:28,549 --> 00:24:26,220 private Contracting world if if they are 566 00:24:31,010 --> 00:24:28,559 holding that clearance or or a company 567 00:24:34,070 --> 00:24:31,020 is holding that clearance for them that 568 00:24:36,169 --> 00:24:34,080 is what guarantees their uh their 569 00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:36,179 employability their future employability 570 00:24:39,830 --> 00:24:38,880 yeah so there's there's that that aspect 571 00:24:43,850 --> 00:24:39,840 of it 572 00:24:45,230 --> 00:24:43,860 um so if if you if you signed a 573 00:24:47,270 --> 00:24:45,240 non-disclosure agreement and you're 574 00:24:50,029 --> 00:24:47,280 involved in a historical UAP Legacy 575 00:24:52,430 --> 00:24:50,039 program and you're threatened with uh if 576 00:24:54,529 --> 00:24:52,440 you break that that secrecy oath with 577 00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:54,539 losing your secrecy or your your 578 00:24:57,529 --> 00:24:56,400 clearance that's that's going to affect 579 00:25:00,350 --> 00:24:57,539 how you're going to be able to put food 580 00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:00,360 on the table uh not to mention the other 581 00:25:04,730 --> 00:25:02,760 aspects of it such as time in 582 00:25:07,789 --> 00:25:04,740 Leavenworth Prison ten thousand dollar 583 00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:07,799 fine loss of retirement so these these 584 00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:10,460 secrecy Agreements are are significant 585 00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,860 and from what Robert Salas had had 586 00:25:19,610 --> 00:25:16,080 shared that that was actually fairly 587 00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:19,620 common with anyone in the in the uh in 588 00:25:25,370 --> 00:25:22,500 the in the nuclear ICBM world that had 589 00:25:27,409 --> 00:25:25,380 these it had these uh incidents happen 590 00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:27,419 where where their missiles were shut 591 00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:29,700 down that that almost nine times out of 592 00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:31,679 ten nine times out of ten they had to 593 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,740 sign a secrecy agreement these folks are 594 00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:36,480 not going to break it obviously because 595 00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,580 of the legal Jeopardy that they would 596 00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:41,520 put themselves in so the The 597 00:25:46,669 --> 00:25:44,400 Whistleblower protection in the ndaa I 598 00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,679 think is significant again I'm not an 599 00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,240 expert on this there are people much 600 00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:50,880 more uh much more informed about this 601 00:25:57,049 --> 00:25:53,640 than I am but it seems to me that that 602 00:26:00,769 --> 00:25:57,059 that is a really significant step 603 00:26:02,029 --> 00:26:00,779 forward that will allow people 604 00:26:03,890 --> 00:26:02,039 um you know for instance what I 605 00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:03,900 understand is Bob Bob Salas has been 606 00:26:09,409 --> 00:26:07,200 called to testify in front of Arrow now 607 00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:09,419 as I think everyone here probably knows 608 00:26:16,490 --> 00:26:12,960 part of that's the The Whistleblower 609 00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:16,500 protection doesn't mean you can go and 610 00:26:20,810 --> 00:26:19,020 testify in front of Arrow or testify to 611 00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:20,820 their to their Senator or congressman 612 00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:23,100 and then go and then go chat about it to 613 00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:25,380 to the New York Times uh obviously 614 00:26:30,169 --> 00:26:28,260 wouldn't be Julian Barnes but uh but uh 615 00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:30,179 but you know maybe somebody else at the 616 00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:32,640 New York Times uh Leslie Keane or uh or 617 00:26:37,850 --> 00:26:35,279 Ralph Blumenthal but um 618 00:26:41,510 --> 00:26:37,860 but I yeah my understanding is is that 619 00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:41,520 it it is significant uh and I mentioned 620 00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,980 this I I think in a tweet uh 621 00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:46,320 in addition to the political contacts 622 00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:49,080 it's also that that we've developed uh 623 00:26:52,490 --> 00:26:50,880 since since doing this we've also 624 00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:52,500 developed contacts with folks that are 625 00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:55,020 involved in this disclosure process in 626 00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:58,200 in DC and uh and that was one of the 627 00:27:02,269 --> 00:27:00,240 bits of news I think was week week or 628 00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:02,279 week before last that we broke was that 629 00:27:07,010 --> 00:27:04,260 people this month were going and 630 00:27:08,690 --> 00:27:07,020 testifying directly to uh the arrow 631 00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,700 director Sean kirpatrick people that 632 00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:10,799 were involved in these Legacy UAP 633 00:27:15,470 --> 00:27:13,260 programs and so you know so that's 634 00:27:17,570 --> 00:27:15,480 that's that's pretty significant news 635 00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:17,580 that that it's opened the door up that 636 00:27:21,470 --> 00:27:20,159 people that were involved in these 637 00:27:24,409 --> 00:27:21,480 programs 638 00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:24,419 feel compelled which I'm glad they are 639 00:27:29,149 --> 00:27:26,580 uh obviously they're doing us a great 640 00:27:31,250 --> 00:27:29,159 risk to go and and talk to people in 641 00:27:33,049 --> 00:27:31,260 Washington because obviously this has 642 00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:33,059 been hidden from a great number of 643 00:27:38,390 --> 00:27:36,720 people in DC uh and especially Congress 644 00:27:40,370 --> 00:27:38,400 about what's been going on yeah 645 00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:40,380 absolutely and I just brought up the 646 00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:41,700 Tweet there that you know that says that 647 00:27:45,950 --> 00:27:44,220 you can confirm from a source directly 648 00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,960 about about what you just mentioned that 649 00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:48,240 people are coming to testify in front of 650 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:50,700 uh Dr Kirkpatrick 651 00:27:53,570 --> 00:27:51,840 um 652 00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:53,580 one thing that I have to ask about and 653 00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,779 this is something that comes up with me 654 00:27:58,430 --> 00:27:56,159 all the time I'm lucky enough to have 655 00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,440 sources in various places when it comes 656 00:28:03,049 --> 00:28:01,020 to UFOs and UAP but a lot of people seem 657 00:28:04,610 --> 00:28:03,059 to have a problem with sources what is 658 00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,620 your kind of response to that because 659 00:28:09,529 --> 00:28:07,440 you know I've built Source trust and I 660 00:28:12,890 --> 00:28:09,539 respect source and on a minute and 661 00:28:14,510 --> 00:28:12,900 non-aminity and Source protection in 662 00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,520 general so what do you do you ever get 663 00:28:18,649 --> 00:28:16,559 any pushback on that like you've got a 664 00:28:21,230 --> 00:28:18,659 name change you've got to divulge like 665 00:28:24,409 --> 00:28:21,240 yeah I I think and and and I can 666 00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,419 understand that skepticism uh the way I 667 00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:26,880 the way I look at it is I'm I'm a 668 00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,460 messenger I'm putting out information uh 669 00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:32,220 you can either choose to believe it or 670 00:28:37,070 --> 00:28:34,020 choose not to I'm not here to convince 671 00:28:39,289 --> 00:28:37,080 you one way or the other you you uh you 672 00:28:41,210 --> 00:28:39,299 decide the viewer decides what they want 673 00:28:42,769 --> 00:28:41,220 to take and what they want to what they 674 00:28:47,390 --> 00:28:42,779 want to set aside 675 00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:47,400 um as far you know as far as sources go 676 00:28:51,169 --> 00:28:48,900 you know 677 00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:51,179 people in in that are involved in this 678 00:28:56,510 --> 00:28:54,120 stuff in DC they often they they can't 679 00:29:01,090 --> 00:28:56,520 they can't speak about it officially if 680 00:29:03,970 --> 00:29:01,100 they're a staffer uh for a congressman 681 00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:03,980 that person unless they've been 682 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:06,720 specifically authorized to to speak on 683 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:09,000 behalf of that Senator they're not going 684 00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:13,620 to do it so they may uh it's going to be 685 00:29:19,130 --> 00:29:15,960 off the Record so they'll they'll 686 00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:19,140 they'll say okay you you can't say where 687 00:29:24,289 --> 00:29:21,779 this is coming from but this is this is 688 00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:24,299 what is going on behind the scenes now 689 00:29:29,870 --> 00:29:27,539 the onus is on people like myself or 690 00:29:31,070 --> 00:29:29,880 yourself to to vet those sources 691 00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:31,080 obviously you don't want to be talking 692 00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:32,640 to somebody that doesn't know what the 693 00:29:37,070 --> 00:29:34,679 hell they're talking about uh and 694 00:29:40,070 --> 00:29:37,080 repeating that information because then 695 00:29:41,930 --> 00:29:40,080 it it has no value but but Anonymous 696 00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:41,940 sources I mean that's that's been 697 00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,820 something that's been part and parcel of 698 00:29:48,350 --> 00:29:46,799 of this sort of thing for a very long 699 00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:48,360 time I mean if you go all the way back 700 00:29:54,649 --> 00:29:50,880 to Watergate a deep throat was the 701 00:29:56,510 --> 00:29:54,659 anonymous source to The Washington Post 702 00:29:59,450 --> 00:29:56,520 and I think it wasn't until like 30 703 00:30:02,389 --> 00:29:59,460 years later that that that Source was 704 00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:02,399 finally revealed to to be who uh to be 705 00:30:06,950 --> 00:30:04,200 the I don't know who it was I don't 706 00:30:09,470 --> 00:30:06,960 recall but uh but that's just kind of 707 00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:09,480 the way uh that's just kind of the way 708 00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:12,360 it works and I know I think it was a 709 00:30:19,010 --> 00:30:15,059 Jeremy Corbell spoke about this a while 710 00:30:22,070 --> 00:30:19,020 back that uh that the way to be trusted 711 00:30:25,130 --> 00:30:22,080 with information is to be trustworthy so 712 00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:25,140 if somebody that's sitting a staffer in 713 00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:26,399 Congress that deals with National 714 00:30:32,269 --> 00:30:28,500 Security issues is telling you something 715 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:32,279 about UAP and saying okay you can talk 716 00:30:36,529 --> 00:30:34,140 about this but you can't talk about this 717 00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:36,539 and all of this is off the Record you 718 00:30:40,669 --> 00:30:38,580 respect that because the minute you burn 719 00:30:42,169 --> 00:30:40,679 that burn that Source a that person 720 00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:42,179 could lose their job they could lose 721 00:30:48,769 --> 00:30:45,000 their security clearance uh and it's 722 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:48,779 just not the right thing to do so Bill 723 00:30:53,810 --> 00:30:51,240 building building up that building up 724 00:30:56,810 --> 00:30:53,820 that trust takes a while and as Jeremy 725 00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:56,820 Corbell said that you know you gain 726 00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:00,840 trust by being trust trustworthy but um 727 00:31:06,769 --> 00:31:03,720 my hope uh and I do think that that will 728 00:31:11,990 --> 00:31:06,779 be the case is that you will hopefully 729 00:31:13,669 --> 00:31:12,000 in 2023 see more politicians uh be a 730 00:31:15,950 --> 00:31:13,679 little bit more upfront about all of 731 00:31:19,610 --> 00:31:15,960 this temper Shep pointed out which is 732 00:31:22,250 --> 00:31:19,620 very very true that if if you're a 733 00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:22,260 congressman or Senator and you go and 734 00:31:27,470 --> 00:31:24,480 you view this ISR product 735 00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:27,480 you you that Senator or Congressman 736 00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:29,760 there they legally cannot talk about 737 00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:33,000 that uh so it doesn't matter that 738 00:31:37,190 --> 00:31:34,980 they're in Congress and they've been 739 00:31:40,010 --> 00:31:37,200 elected you know elected to that office 740 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:40,020 if if it's classified material they 741 00:31:47,149 --> 00:31:44,880 can't talk about that uh so so the I 742 00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:47,159 think in many ways the staffers tend to 743 00:31:52,909 --> 00:31:50,220 be the vehicle to get some of this 744 00:31:55,549 --> 00:31:52,919 information out without obviously 745 00:31:59,870 --> 00:31:55,559 crossing a line that is going to legally 746 00:32:02,450 --> 00:31:59,880 jeopardize uh their well-being as well 747 00:32:04,430 --> 00:32:02,460 no absolutely completely agree I like 748 00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:04,440 the out the Outlook that you've got and 749 00:32:08,029 --> 00:32:06,240 you know like I said I've got sources 750 00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:08,039 who have some have become friends some 751 00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:10,860 are just there if I need them let's say 752 00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:12,179 and you know I've 753 00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:14,460 tried to Wrangle information out of them 754 00:32:18,289 --> 00:32:16,020 I've thought of every little thing I can 755 00:32:21,710 --> 00:32:18,299 and every single one of them respects 756 00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:21,720 their tssci clearance 757 00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:24,840 Patriots to the you know to the core and 758 00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:27,360 I can do nothing but respect that and 759 00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:30,000 you know as much as I want to be I want 760 00:32:33,769 --> 00:32:31,679 to be a messenger and bring forth all 761 00:32:36,649 --> 00:32:33,779 the juicy UAP information at the same 762 00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:36,659 time I would not expect anybody to put 763 00:32:40,970 --> 00:32:38,700 their livelihood their family or 764 00:32:42,950 --> 00:32:40,980 anything in their lives at risk for me 765 00:32:45,409 --> 00:32:42,960 and and that so completely understand 766 00:32:47,510 --> 00:32:45,419 where you're coming from yeah I mean you 767 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:47,520 really hit the nail on the head uh all 768 00:32:53,029 --> 00:32:49,860 of these folks we all love our country 769 00:32:54,529 --> 00:32:53,039 and I would certainly never divulge 770 00:32:56,029 --> 00:32:54,539 anything that would jeopardize the 771 00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:56,039 National Security of the United States 772 00:33:00,110 --> 00:32:58,320 or uh and and these folks wouldn't 773 00:33:02,330 --> 00:33:00,120 either I mean there are often times when 774 00:33:05,149 --> 00:33:02,340 I do ask questions and they'll just say 775 00:33:06,590 --> 00:33:05,159 I can't talk about that and uh and I 776 00:33:08,750 --> 00:33:06,600 don't push because I know that that 777 00:33:09,889 --> 00:33:08,760 question is pushing the line a little 778 00:33:12,769 --> 00:33:09,899 bit further than they're comfortable 779 00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:12,779 talking about but but that is how all of 780 00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:16,080 this how at present all of this 781 00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:18,179 stuff is entering the sort of public 782 00:33:23,269 --> 00:33:21,000 conversation and I do hope it changes 783 00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:23,279 because I think I think until that 784 00:33:28,490 --> 00:33:26,220 happens there will be the the naysayers 785 00:33:30,649 --> 00:33:28,500 that will be skeptical about what I may 786 00:33:32,930 --> 00:33:30,659 present or what someone else may present 787 00:33:35,049 --> 00:33:32,940 and that just that just that that just 788 00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:35,059 comes that just comes with the territory 789 00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:37,320 uh frankly 790 00:33:43,310 --> 00:33:40,380 um but the you know going back to that 791 00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:43,320 original call it was very clear that 792 00:33:52,909 --> 00:33:47,820 that it was a bipartisan issue and uh 793 00:33:55,009 --> 00:33:52,919 and I I think that really speaks to the 794 00:33:56,570 --> 00:33:55,019 seriousness of the subject and that it's 795 00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:56,580 it is time to have a conversation with 796 00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,980 the American people about this stuff and 797 00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:00,960 if if you have something that is this 798 00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:04,019 bipartisan in in United States politics 799 00:34:09,169 --> 00:34:05,820 I think that that tells you quite a bit 800 00:34:11,570 --> 00:34:09,179 about the gravitas of of the subject 801 00:34:13,550 --> 00:34:11,580 I love the way you put that absolutely 802 00:34:15,050 --> 00:34:13,560 and and like you mentioned earlier 803 00:34:16,849 --> 00:34:15,060 you're quite new to this and you've 804 00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:16,859 jumped in quite quickly but from my 805 00:34:19,849 --> 00:34:18,720 outside perspective looking into to the 806 00:34:21,710 --> 00:34:19,859 work that you've been doing in the 807 00:34:23,510 --> 00:34:21,720 content you've really in my opinion 808 00:34:25,010 --> 00:34:23,520 grasps onto the right people the right 809 00:34:26,690 --> 00:34:25,020 aspects and and that so I'm really 810 00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:26,700 looking forward to what what you've got 811 00:34:30,950 --> 00:34:28,560 coming up is there anything or any 812 00:34:32,810 --> 00:34:30,960 interviews that you have in mind or that 813 00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:32,820 you have coming up that you're able to 814 00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:36,300 to divulge no not at the uh not at the 815 00:34:39,409 --> 00:34:38,220 moment actually I mean uh it's so kind 816 00:34:41,810 --> 00:34:39,419 of been sidetracked with some other 817 00:34:45,050 --> 00:34:41,820 stuff but uh but I you know I certainly 818 00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,060 uh certainly uh hope uh that uh some 819 00:34:50,570 --> 00:34:47,280 stuff that we're working on will will uh 820 00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:50,580 will come to fruition I I I'm hopeful 821 00:34:57,950 --> 00:34:54,720 that 2023 is is going to uh you know is 822 00:35:01,250 --> 00:34:57,960 going to reveal bring some new some 823 00:35:03,230 --> 00:35:01,260 significant news uh uh to this whole 824 00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:03,240 subject you know the other thing I want 825 00:35:09,410 --> 00:35:05,000 to touch on too is that 826 00:35:11,870 --> 00:35:09,420 we really I think as a nation as a you 827 00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:11,880 know as a species oh a huge debt of 828 00:35:15,290 --> 00:35:14,460 gratitude to these folks that have 829 00:35:17,810 --> 00:35:15,300 really 830 00:35:20,050 --> 00:35:17,820 weathered the arrows and brought this 831 00:35:25,370 --> 00:35:20,060 subject forward people like Lou Elizondo 832 00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,380 uh Chris Mellon uh Chris sharp uh who I 833 00:35:29,210 --> 00:35:27,480 think is doing treating at The 834 00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:29,220 Liberation time the journalist Chris 835 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:32,160 sharp is treating this with the uh with 836 00:35:35,870 --> 00:35:34,560 a journalistic rigor of of the uh the 837 00:35:38,030 --> 00:35:35,880 journalists that that worked on 838 00:35:40,730 --> 00:35:38,040 Watergate there there are a lot of 839 00:35:44,750 --> 00:35:40,740 people that are 840 00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,760 are standing up to the criticism and the 841 00:35:48,829 --> 00:35:46,079 shame 842 00:35:51,710 --> 00:35:48,839 um yeah I was listening to Dr Gary Nolan 843 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,720 who I'm a freaking huge fan of uh I 844 00:35:56,930 --> 00:35:54,000 think he's one of the most 845 00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:56,940 well thought well well-spoken 846 00:36:02,089 --> 00:36:00,480 individuals uh on this subject 847 00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:02,099 um and I always recommend anyone that's 848 00:36:07,130 --> 00:36:05,400 new to the subject to to listen to some 849 00:36:10,010 --> 00:36:07,140 of the things that that he's he's talked 850 00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:10,020 about on on various various podcasts 851 00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:11,760 um but one of the things he touched on 852 00:36:17,810 --> 00:36:14,400 recently in a in in someone's podcast 853 00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:17,820 number where or which one but the 854 00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:20,700 they're really the the shame element 855 00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:24,780 uh is something that is is something 856 00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:26,460 that's been instilled in us since we 857 00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:27,780 were a little kid you know you do 858 00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:29,460 something bad you know your parents say 859 00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:32,160 shame on you and it's it's such a a 860 00:36:38,210 --> 00:36:34,500 visceral emotion 861 00:36:40,190 --> 00:36:38,220 and what better way to control the 862 00:36:43,910 --> 00:36:40,200 conversation on this on this subject 863 00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:43,920 than to uh than to shame shame somebody 864 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:46,800 about it and you saw this going all the 865 00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:49,260 way back really beginning uh you know in 866 00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:52,800 the 50s and 60s and 70s uh with uh with 867 00:36:57,050 --> 00:36:55,140 what went on with the government if if 868 00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,060 uh you know if you thought you saw 869 00:37:04,609 --> 00:36:59,280 something you must have a tinfoil hat on 870 00:37:08,150 --> 00:37:04,619 or or uh swamp gas or or something like 871 00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:08,160 that uh any any number of of sort of 872 00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:12,000 excuses that that you know you go oh you 873 00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:13,680 know maybe I maybe I was seeing 874 00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:15,660 something and you begin you begin this 875 00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:18,960 health doubt and I think that this whole 876 00:37:26,089 --> 00:37:22,320 use of Shame especially in the debunker 877 00:37:27,710 --> 00:37:26,099 community uh I I and and that you know I 878 00:37:31,609 --> 00:37:27,720 can understand people being a healthy 879 00:37:33,530 --> 00:37:31,619 skeptic uh everyone should be uh you 880 00:37:35,089 --> 00:37:33,540 know don't believe everything I say or 881 00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:35,099 anyone says for them I usually always 882 00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:39,359 have a a a a a uh a healthy skepticism 883 00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:42,960 but I think I think it it it becomes a 884 00:37:50,150 --> 00:37:46,680 different thing when you're a debunker 885 00:37:52,430 --> 00:37:50,160 that uh that is is 886 00:37:57,770 --> 00:37:52,440 really 887 00:38:01,370 --> 00:37:57,780 end the under the underpinnings of it is 888 00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:01,380 by shaming the conversation so as 889 00:38:07,069 --> 00:38:04,560 opposed to saying uh okay uh we're gonna 890 00:38:10,190 --> 00:38:07,079 have this UAP conference in this in this 891 00:38:11,810 --> 00:38:10,200 tiny country that happens to be a member 892 00:38:13,370 --> 00:38:11,820 of the UN 893 00:38:15,230 --> 00:38:13,380 um you know so what if they're a tiny 894 00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:15,240 country let's let's have this conference 895 00:38:19,069 --> 00:38:17,280 let's let's find out what what the 896 00:38:21,470 --> 00:38:19,079 science what the evidence is going to be 897 00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:21,480 rather than saying oh this is a tiny 898 00:38:26,329 --> 00:38:23,400 country this tells you that the topic is 899 00:38:28,010 --> 00:38:26,339 is is irrelevant and I think you've seen 900 00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:28,020 that too going all the way up to to 901 00:38:32,890 --> 00:38:30,960 people like Neil deGrasse Tyson who I 902 00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:32,900 understand seems to be changing his tune 903 00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:36,660 but you go back and you you you read the 904 00:38:44,750 --> 00:38:41,280 tweets and the comments uh by Tyson or 905 00:38:46,670 --> 00:38:44,760 um or uh uh Dick West or Green Street or 906 00:38:49,069 --> 00:38:46,680 any of these guys and and you know you 907 00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:49,079 really you really 908 00:38:53,150 --> 00:38:50,820 there doesn't seem to be a healthy 909 00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:53,160 skepticism it seems to be more of an 910 00:39:01,490 --> 00:38:58,320 agenda to to derail taking this thing 911 00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:01,500 seriously so I think I I 912 00:39:07,370 --> 00:39:05,460 be helpfully skeptical but don't you 913 00:39:10,670 --> 00:39:07,380 know don't try to bury the conversation 914 00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,680 in shame that's what's the end of 2022 915 00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:13,200 we were expecting the UAP reports come 916 00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,260 out from the odni around October 31st 917 00:39:20,810 --> 00:39:18,720 which we didn't get but funnily enough 918 00:39:22,670 --> 00:39:20,820 around that time what we did see were a 919 00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:22,680 couple of articles that really stood out 920 00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:25,260 from a negative angle one from Julian 921 00:39:28,370 --> 00:39:26,760 Barnes at the New York Times and the 922 00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:28,380 other one from the Wall Street Journal 923 00:39:32,630 --> 00:39:30,960 and I just you know felt that that was 924 00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:32,640 kind of premeditated like it was meant 925 00:39:36,050 --> 00:39:34,320 to come out that time to really push 926 00:39:39,050 --> 00:39:36,060 back on the subject and I'd really love 927 00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:39,060 to to hear your opinions on those yeah I 928 00:39:46,910 --> 00:39:42,359 I yeah I uh yeah I'm not fans of either 929 00:39:49,970 --> 00:39:46,920 of them uh and I I think that it was in 930 00:39:50,750 --> 00:39:49,980 my view a clearly coordinated effort 931 00:39:54,349 --> 00:39:50,760 um 932 00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:54,359 I don't know who from uh uh uh what was 933 00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:56,520 the uh the department that Lou used to 934 00:40:00,589 --> 00:39:58,320 work for uh Odie and III or something 935 00:40:02,750 --> 00:40:00,599 like that on iusdi 936 00:40:06,589 --> 00:40:02,760 ousdi yeah we know the the government 937 00:40:09,170 --> 00:40:06,599 loves all these acronyms I am sure I am 938 00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:09,180 I don't have firsthand knowledge of this 939 00:40:14,690 --> 00:40:10,800 at all no one has ever said anything to 940 00:40:16,430 --> 00:40:14,700 me but I think it is pretty clear that 941 00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:16,440 this was some kind of coordinated effort 942 00:40:23,150 --> 00:40:21,480 and I believe uh it's either uh Jenkins 943 00:40:30,170 --> 00:40:23,160 or 944 00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:30,180 um Julian bones Julian Barnes yes uh uh 945 00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,700 worked with each other or at the same 946 00:40:37,310 --> 00:40:34,800 publication either Wall Street Journal 947 00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:37,320 New York Times who knows I mean purely 948 00:40:43,849 --> 00:40:41,040 is all hypothetical there but it it this 949 00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:43,859 all touches back on what Dr Gary Nolan 950 00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:48,480 said of this whole thing of um of using 951 00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:51,300 shame to control the narrative uh 952 00:40:56,569 --> 00:40:53,520 Hallman Jenkins who I like to call 953 00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,579 jackass Jenkins uh that's just me uh you 954 00:41:02,870 --> 00:40:59,520 know he in that in I think it was a an 955 00:41:04,730 --> 00:41:02,880 article uh shortly after the the report 956 00:41:06,829 --> 00:41:04,740 was supposed to come out he said 957 00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,839 something about I've got what the exact 958 00:41:10,190 --> 00:41:08,400 headline was but it was something about 959 00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:10,200 that the real national security threat 960 00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:13,680 are the the UAP crowd or I've got how he 961 00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:17,820 put it I mean you read these things 962 00:41:22,250 --> 00:41:19,260 you know first of all the Wall Street 963 00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:22,260 Journal and the New York Times in the 964 00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:24,240 United States that carries a lot of 965 00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:26,040 weight in the political world everybody 966 00:41:34,430 --> 00:41:30,240 reads that stuff so if you're someone in 967 00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:34,440 the dod and you see this train heading 968 00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:35,579 down 969 00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:38,760 the track and you're looking for ways to 970 00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,079 derail it or slow it down or or or let's 971 00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:45,839 just say so doubt in the minds of 972 00:41:51,849 --> 00:41:48,480 lawmakers what better way to do it or 973 00:41:55,550 --> 00:41:51,859 better yet so doubt in the constituents 974 00:41:57,770 --> 00:41:55,560 who elected these folks and for the 975 00:41:59,810 --> 00:41:57,780 constituents to go oh hey why are these 976 00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:59,820 guys spending money on this whole UFO 977 00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,660 thing 978 00:42:04,609 --> 00:42:03,119 what better way to do that than to 979 00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,619 enlist 980 00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:06,960 the guy that is your National Security 981 00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:11,160 correspondent uh uh uh Julian Barnes for 982 00:42:16,490 --> 00:42:13,980 instance in the New York Times to 983 00:42:18,589 --> 00:42:16,500 go to him and say okay look we've given 984 00:42:21,290 --> 00:42:18,599 you uh you know I've really helped you 985 00:42:23,510 --> 00:42:21,300 out with these stories on Afghanistan or 986 00:42:26,990 --> 00:42:23,520 whatever now it's time for you to 987 00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:27,000 scratch my back uh this is what what we 988 00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:29,760 would love for you to say hint uh wink 989 00:42:33,530 --> 00:42:32,880 week nudge nudge about this topic 990 00:42:35,750 --> 00:42:33,540 um 991 00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:35,760 Holland Jenkins I think is on a 992 00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:37,560 different level of jackassery to be 993 00:42:44,450 --> 00:42:40,440 honest uh I I don't know what the hell 994 00:42:45,589 --> 00:42:44,460 is wrong with that guy uh but uh just 995 00:42:52,970 --> 00:42:45,599 the 996 00:42:55,069 --> 00:42:52,980 is I I again I'm no journalist but I 997 00:42:57,770 --> 00:42:55,079 think if I were the editor of the New 998 00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:57,780 York Times And The Washington Post I 999 00:43:01,670 --> 00:43:00,000 would uh I'm sorry the New York Times 1000 00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:01,680 And The Wall Street Journal I personally 1001 00:43:07,849 --> 00:43:05,040 would be embarrassed uh as an Editor to 1002 00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:07,859 be putting forth uh that kind of junk 1003 00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,140 journalism uh you know a good example 1004 00:43:15,470 --> 00:43:12,000 with the New York Times uh Ralph 1005 00:43:18,290 --> 00:43:15,480 Blumenthal uh Leslie Keane and the um 1006 00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:18,300 Helen uh Elaine Cooper yeah Helene 1007 00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,240 Cooper uh from what I understand when 1008 00:43:25,730 --> 00:43:23,880 when they when they provided or when 1009 00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:25,740 they came up with with that bombshell 1010 00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:28,079 story in in 2017 of the New York Times 1011 00:43:35,329 --> 00:43:32,400 They had to show backup they had to 1012 00:43:38,930 --> 00:43:35,339 um provide sources to the editor in 1013 00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:38,940 order for this article to fly uh Julian 1014 00:43:45,410 --> 00:43:42,839 Barnes uh he there was none of that in 1015 00:43:48,410 --> 00:43:45,420 in uh in that article that was clearly 1016 00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:48,420 meant when you read that thing it's 1017 00:43:53,809 --> 00:43:51,599 obvious that that uh that he thought 1018 00:43:55,490 --> 00:43:53,819 that this that the UAP report was going 1019 00:43:58,010 --> 00:43:55,500 to come out in the next day or two which 1020 00:44:02,089 --> 00:43:58,020 by the way he did the exact same kind of 1021 00:44:03,710 --> 00:44:02,099 uh dick move now to be honest uh with uh 1022 00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:03,720 with the with the previous one as well 1023 00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:07,920 so um so in this last instance he quoted 1024 00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:10,680 Anonymous Pentagon sources so my 1025 00:44:15,770 --> 00:44:12,780 question to the editor of the New York 1026 00:44:18,589 --> 00:44:15,780 Times is why is that okay for him to do 1027 00:44:22,309 --> 00:44:18,599 that and quote Anonymous sources and 1028 00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:22,319 present bunk uh bunk journalism uh 1029 00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,440 whereas Leslie Keane and you know you 1030 00:44:30,650 --> 00:44:27,839 you as the editor of the New York Times 1031 00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:30,660 why were you holding uh or as a 1032 00:44:35,510 --> 00:44:33,240 publication why were you holding them to 1033 00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:35,520 a different standard than Julian Barnes 1034 00:44:42,910 --> 00:44:40,380 uh I I think it's it's uh in my opinion 1035 00:44:47,750 --> 00:44:42,920 it's it's a a a a 1036 00:44:51,410 --> 00:44:47,760 clear-cut effort to try and and derail 1037 00:44:54,650 --> 00:44:51,420 this thing as much as they can as uh as 1038 00:44:56,089 --> 00:44:54,660 a as a publication excuse me and then on 1039 00:44:58,010 --> 00:44:56,099 the on the other side of the coin you 1040 00:45:01,430 --> 00:44:58,020 you have uh I'm Gonna Leave names out 1041 00:45:04,490 --> 00:45:01,440 here but uh uh Mark Von uh running camp 1042 00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:04,500 and um I I don't like naming names 1043 00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:07,260 because obviously leave people out or as 1044 00:45:14,109 --> 00:45:10,560 I spoke about Chris sharp who who are 1045 00:45:17,630 --> 00:45:14,119 approaching this in a very 1046 00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:17,640 ethic in a very ethical way from a 1047 00:45:23,450 --> 00:45:19,980 journalistic point of view uh it's 1048 00:45:26,930 --> 00:45:23,460 they're running rings around uh uh 1049 00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:26,940 Hallman Jenkins and Julian Barnes and 1050 00:45:30,530 --> 00:45:28,440 frankly if I were them I would be 1051 00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:30,540 embarrassed about what they've put out 1052 00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,119 yeah I clearly asked some pretty strong 1053 00:45:37,609 --> 00:45:36,240 feelings about about uh about this I 1054 00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:37,619 understand and I mean that goes from 1055 00:45:41,390 --> 00:45:39,420 both sides and you know we we can't 1056 00:45:43,790 --> 00:45:41,400 please everybody we we follow our own 1057 00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:43,800 paths and that um but I appreciate the 1058 00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:45,420 comments and the Insight that you gave 1059 00:45:49,250 --> 00:45:46,380 there 1060 00:45:51,470 --> 00:45:49,260 um sorry let me just just add this too 1061 00:45:56,510 --> 00:45:51,480 obviously 1062 00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,520 um the power of the media uh is is 1063 00:46:01,609 --> 00:45:59,520 it's it's enormous in in in people's 1064 00:46:05,329 --> 00:46:01,619 thinking and we've we've seen that the 1065 00:46:07,490 --> 00:46:05,339 power of social media and there are 1066 00:46:09,470 --> 00:46:07,500 there are a lot of people uh in the 1067 00:46:12,589 --> 00:46:09,480 world that you can 1068 00:46:17,150 --> 00:46:12,599 tell them something is a certain way 1069 00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:17,160 uh if you're a Fox News or New York 1070 00:46:20,630 --> 00:46:19,200 Times or whatever and they're going to 1071 00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,640 take it as a gospel I mean it's the same 1072 00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:22,800 thing with with a lot of politicians 1073 00:46:27,050 --> 00:46:25,200 uh President Joe Biden who I love he'll 1074 00:46:28,849 --> 00:46:27,060 say this is how things are and they're 1075 00:46:31,609 --> 00:46:28,859 going to be people that are going to go 1076 00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:31,619 okay that's it uh 1077 00:46:39,890 --> 00:46:36,060 so words have power and when you attack 1078 00:46:43,790 --> 00:46:39,900 a subject with the veracity that that 1079 00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,800 these Jenkins and Barnes have done you 1080 00:46:48,290 --> 00:46:45,599 know really does a disservice and again 1081 00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:48,300 going back to the debunkers it's I feel 1082 00:46:54,589 --> 00:46:50,900 it's very much in the in the same vein 1083 00:46:56,990 --> 00:46:54,599 going all the way to Neil deGrasse Tyson 1084 00:46:58,730 --> 00:46:57,000 they have a voice and people listen to 1085 00:47:02,150 --> 00:46:58,740 those voices 1086 00:47:04,790 --> 00:47:02,160 I think if if none of us know what the 1087 00:47:07,430 --> 00:47:04,800 hell this thing is uh this phenomenon is 1088 00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:07,440 I think if anyone does it tells you that 1089 00:47:10,970 --> 00:47:09,240 they have the answers 1090 00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,980 take that with a grain of salt no one 1091 00:47:15,890 --> 00:47:13,200 knows what it is so everyone should be 1092 00:47:17,690 --> 00:47:15,900 asking questions no one should be 1093 00:47:21,109 --> 00:47:17,700 poisoning the well 1094 00:47:23,690 --> 00:47:21,119 encouraging people not to ask questions 1095 00:47:25,069 --> 00:47:23,700 I completely agree unfortunately you 1096 00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:25,079 know it's not that black and white in 1097 00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:28,319 this community we we get accused of 1098 00:47:33,410 --> 00:47:31,020 being Believers purely because we're not 1099 00:47:35,450 --> 00:47:33,420 ready to be you know complete debunkers 1100 00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:35,460 and and take us a road or a certain 1101 00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:38,339 narrative and and that but you know I'm 1102 00:47:42,650 --> 00:47:39,839 in it for the long run I'm here till the 1103 00:47:44,030 --> 00:47:42,660 end and and that's it you know right 1104 00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:44,040 listen I appreciate I appreciate 1105 00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,480 everything we've talked about but one 1106 00:47:49,370 --> 00:47:47,280 thing I'd really like to end on just 1107 00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:49,380 just to lighten up a little bit is in 1108 00:47:52,370 --> 00:47:50,880 your time here and you've talked to a 1109 00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:52,380 few different people and spoken about 1110 00:47:56,270 --> 00:47:54,480 different cases is there a case that 1111 00:47:58,670 --> 00:47:56,280 really stands out for you as one that 1112 00:48:01,010 --> 00:47:58,680 you know would be your your top case 1113 00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:01,020 oh wow that's uh 1114 00:48:05,630 --> 00:48:03,839 that's a that's a really good question I 1115 00:48:09,770 --> 00:48:05,640 have to think about that I mean it is a 1116 00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,780 tough one yeah yeah no I I uh I I think 1117 00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:11,760 it would uh I I think it would probably 1118 00:48:19,069 --> 00:48:15,599 have to be the the Tic Tac case uh you 1119 00:48:22,190 --> 00:48:19,079 know you you know you had uh uh uh favor 1120 00:48:25,130 --> 00:48:22,200 uh talk about it on uh on 60 minutes and 1121 00:48:26,870 --> 00:48:25,140 then and then you had uh uh his uh 1122 00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:26,880 wingman I'm bad with names I'm blinking 1123 00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:29,460 on her name uh Alex Dietrich yeah Alex 1124 00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,599 Dietrich uh back it up and um you know 1125 00:48:37,609 --> 00:48:34,800 and the thing I want to I think I would 1126 00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:37,619 like to to end on is 1127 00:48:43,069 --> 00:48:40,020 the people that that serve our country 1128 00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:43,079 that protect our country that 1129 00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:46,680 our government has invested Millions 1130 00:48:53,450 --> 00:48:49,260 upon millions of dollars into their 1131 00:48:56,270 --> 00:48:53,460 training our Naval aviators are are uh 1132 00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:56,280 our Airmen all of these folks that our 1133 00:49:03,170 --> 00:49:00,000 government has dumped huge amounts of of 1134 00:49:05,809 --> 00:49:03,180 capital into to train these people to 1135 00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,819 operate some of our most expensive 1136 00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,160 military machines 1137 00:49:12,170 --> 00:49:10,079 for 1138 00:49:14,210 --> 00:49:12,180 someone like Nick West to say oh they're 1139 00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:14,220 just seeing a seagull 1140 00:49:21,530 --> 00:49:16,079 come on 1141 00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:21,540 they know what they're looking at uh and 1142 00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:25,200 uh uh yeah I'll just leave it at that no 1143 00:49:29,150 --> 00:49:27,599 I I really appreciate the conversation 1144 00:49:31,069 --> 00:49:29,160 you've you've been really I really 1145 00:49:33,410 --> 00:49:31,079 enjoyed to talk to um you're very 1146 00:49:35,510 --> 00:49:33,420 welcome I don't thank you enough okay I 1147 00:49:38,270 --> 00:49:35,520 hope I didn't Ramble On too much I love 1148 00:49:39,950 --> 00:49:38,280 rambling I love tangents so please 1149 00:49:41,510 --> 00:49:39,960 honestly trust me it was a great 1150 00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:41,520 conversation I'd love to have you back 1151 00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:43,800 hopefully you know six months 12 months 1152 00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:45,060 down the line we can have a whole new 1153 00:49:49,849 --> 00:49:47,160 conversation about this subject moving 1154 00:49:52,130 --> 00:49:49,859 forward but I will now thank you so much